to implement and try that. And you just take the incremental approach and don't throw the whole thing out because you don't like one part of it. And I'd be interested to hear if anybody else has rejected the whole thing because of one really controversial part of it.
Carol: And I'll give the toll-free number out again, so that we could...You're welcome to stay on the line for a little bit, Danny, we may have other callers who might want to interact. It's 866-277-5369. And I think you're very right, that when the Yourdon method, when the structured analysis method came out, everyone said, "You must apply it exactly this way." And it was almost to the extent of having police, you know, structured analysis police. And I think that the notion of extreme programming police is something that just doesn't exist. And one of the neat things about talking to Kent Beck live is that you find out that he's a real person. You find out that he's a person that has taken a look at Extreme Programming, he's taken a look at object-oriented programming, and picked out the pieces that really seem to make sense. Not spending too much time iterating and iterating and getting the words exactly right in requirements. Actually starting to do them. So I think that makes a lot of sense. Danny, have you tried extreme programming at all?
Caller: No, I really haven't had the opportunity to follow it yet. I'm still waiting for the right moment to really jump in and try it. But some of my colleagues, there was one for example that said, "You've got to try pair programming. You've just got to do it." Once he tried it, he insists on doing it that way. Anywhere he does any programming. So there's certainly some elements that I'm willing to try. My background is more in testing, and I'm for the idea of pair testing as well. I've done that to some extent in terms of reviewing bug reports. But really pair testing where you're both sitting down in front of one terminal. I'm looking forward to trying that. I hope it's an opportunity that I'll get.
Carol: And it's not a new idea. I was talking to a number of colleagues and they said, "This pair programming thing sounds kind of wacky." And I said, "Well, it's not a new idea." We used to do it, when we had punch cards, and if anybody can remember back to the times of submitting a batch job. And submitting a batch job and having to wait an entire day to find out if you put the comma or the period or something in the wrong place. And you'd actually submit it and you'd get it back and you'd say, "Oh, if I'd only seen that." So what we used to do is in the