to be involved, if you have a poor history of on-time development, if you have a history of really not being able to manage well, then I'd say give XP a shot. What's the worst thing that could happen? Your users participate. And if you get halfway through the project and you say, "You know what? This isn't working. Let's go back to traditional." You haven't lost anything.
I'm going to finish up with one of the quotes that Kent posted on this thread. It was "Is CMM mindless regimentation?" And there were a lot of opinions. Capability Maturity Model providing a structured method. And actually structuring your processes, so that they're repeatable, so that they're measurable. And somebody said, "Is CMM mindless regimentation?" And they asked that of Kent Beck.
And he said, from what he's read, chaotic approaches sometimes are more effective. I can't say that I'd necessarily agree with that. For instance, in one report that I've read a long time ago, it was said that for companies on a survival track, the chaotic approach was more successful as a survival strategy than a well-structured and organized track. In that case, I think I'd probably agree. In terms of, if you are on a survival, you must get something out today. Absolutely, positively. To spend the day planning probably isn't going to get it out the door. So you might need a radical approach. You might need to do something different. And the pair programming has proven itself, it works extremely well. The story games, planning games, have proven themselves to be worthwhile and extremely valuable. One of the first places that you might want to go and take a look at is the Extreme Programming Explained: Embrace Change, which is Kent Beck's book. Again, it's called Extreme Programming Explained: Embrace Change. It's a very easy read. It's a very good read. It's very structured, it all hangs together. Which might be a surprise to some of you.
Next week's guest: We're going to be talking to Bret Pettichord, who wrote "Testers and Developers Think Differently." And when I first read it, I thought, "Hmmm, I wonder if they're really these different, evil twins?" Whether it's really one personality that has schizophrenia. But we're going to be talking to him about the difference between testers and developers, why or why not they should think differently. And I hope you'll join us for the rest of this series. We'll be having Tom DeMarco, we've recently lined up two absolutely phenomenal standards experts, Peter Voldner and Stan Magee, who are writing a book on standards. Now, it may turn you off. You might thing that ISO standards, "Gee, gosh, that's a boring topic." They're going to be talking about taming your process with standards. And really picking the ones that will help you in your processes in developing better software.
So I thank you for joining us today. I'd like to thank you for being part of this virtual interview with Kent Beck and Ward Cunningham. I'd like to thank you for the virtual call-in, in some cases. I'd like to thank Danny for phoning in. I'd like to thank our sponsor, StickyMinds.com, and I'd like to invite you to go to our Web site, www.qualityplustech.com, where we've got free articles, measurement information, and everything else you might want to see.
Have a wonderful week. I'll talk to you next week.