So we've got to have a way to respond to these changes, to be able to deliver things incrementally so that you actually will have at least the structure or shell of a system being incrementally developed and delivered.
Now, for any of you who are listening who have more experience than I have in extreme programming, I've done a lot of research on it, I'm doing a presentation at the Applications of Software Measurement Conference. My specialty is the measurement area. It's not extreme programming. I've been exposed to it, I know a lot about it from a theoretical point of view. So if you're listening and you have Extreme Programming experience, from an actual point of view, I invite you to phone in toll-free at 866-277-5369. I know that there's even ISO standards, even though extreme programming is fairly new, ISO standards are starting to take a look at applying standards for XP. So if you've got views on that, why don't you phone in and share your thoughts.
And if we don't have Kent Beck and Ward Cunningham phoning in today, there may be a massive storm off the west coast of Oregon, or something may have come up that prevented them from phoning in. We'll try to get them later in the series to readjust their schedules so they can make it. Because both had confirmed that they were going to be on this show. So I'll give you the toll-free number one more time. It's 866-277-5369, and that's anywhere, it's toll free. So I'm just going to walk you through a little bit about who these three extremos are, what's the basis of Extreme Programming, and then talk about some of the things that work in measuring, and some of the things that don't work in measuring. Now, the three extremos are Ward Cunningham, who was really the Inventor, they call him. Kent Beck they call the Articulator, and Ron Jeffries, who actually runs the extreme programming site on the Internet, is called the Realizer. Now they've all got a lot of books, a lot of articles, a lot of things that are available.