e-Talk Radio: Pettichord, Bret, 8 February 2001

There are a lot of developers who really do understand the value of testing and the necessity of it. They know that we are just finding problems that need to be found. So, it is a mixture of things. Sure, there are some developers who find it annoying, and you know the kind of pressure that they are under, too, because they are often expected to sign off the schedules that they really do not believe that are realistic in the first place and so that often puts them in a situation where the testers, well, they just bring the bad news. No one likes hearing bad news.

Carol: Which is not a great position to be in. We will be back shortly with more of Bret Pettichord and talking about developers and testers after these short messages...We are back. Thank you for joining us, and thank you for listening in to Quality Plus E-Talk with Carol Dekkers. This week we are talking to testing expert Bret Pettichord, who is also a consultant and who has been a developer. The toll-free number that they just gave out, is a toll-free number for you to phone in to the show. The number is (866) 277-5369. If you are thinking that 866 does not sound like an area code that is toll-free, it is a number that is toll-free. So, it is (866) 277-5369. If you would like to give any comments to myself or Bret Pettichord, or if you would like to ask any questions or share your experiences, we would love to have you phone in.

We are talking about testers and developers, two different personalities, same type of personalities. One of the questions that I promised the listeners, Bret, that I would ask is what do you think of extreme programming? Where we have developers who are actually doing the test for coding? They are having to be testers and developers in the same body at the same time.

Bret: Well, that is a good question. I have worked with one group that was using some of those philosophies in their development. I see a lot of people doing a lot of different things that they call extreme programming. So, that is kind of the first side of it. First of all, I think extreme programming to some degree is talking about unit testing. It is talking about doing testing of the individual modules that the developers are building. I think that the general theory has always been that the developers are the best ones at doing that kind of testing, and that they should be doing it. It is sad that it is not done as much as people say it is. At some places unit testing means whatever testing the developers choose to do and sometimes it is not much. So, it just varies a lot. I am pleased to see that the extreme programmers see the value of unit testing and that it gives them flexibility in development as well as improved reliability.

Carol: Would you like to take a caller, Bret?

Bret: Sure.

Carol: Okay. Hello caller.

Caller: Hello. What a wonderful conversation. This is the reason there is that wide gulf between the ultimate user and the IT department.

Carol: That is probably true.

Caller: Hello. Can you guys hear me?

Carol: Yes we can.

Caller: I am having a very difficult time, it sounds like you are a million miles away.

Carol: Well, we are across the country from you probably.

Caller: No. No, because I have called in to this station before.