into next week's show. We are going to be having the illustrious two of the three "extremos" of the extreme programming paradigm. Kent Beck who has written a book called Extreme Programming Explained: Embrace Change and Ward Cunningham who has also written books and he was really the originator, the father of extreme programming. Ron Jeffries, who has also written a book, we are not sure if he is going to be on or not. But the two of them or the three "extremos" are really like the three tenors of the opera industry, and we are going to have them on our show. So, please join us next week when we talk about Extreme Programming Meets Measurement. What should you measure on a software project that is done using extreme programming? So, that will be quite exciting. We also have coming up at the end of February, Tom DeMarco, who is going to be talking about risk management. Tom has just recently published a new fiction novel, which I am sure we will bring into the discussion. Jim Highsmith is coming up in March to talk about adaptive software development. David Zubrow, who is a senior member of the technical staff at Software Engineering Institute, will be talking about the capability maturity model advancements. And I have Bret Pettichord, Elizabeth Hendrickson, and a number of other surprise guests who will be coming up. So, I hope you will join us. This has been great, Johanna. I have really enjoyed talking to you. I hope people will come up to us at the conference or conferences that we will be at in the future and just say, "I listen to you" or "I like what you are doing" or "I have some questions."
Johanna: That would be great.
Carol: So, thank you for spending the last hour with us and sharing your expertise and your knowledge. Do you have a final word of wisdom that you would like to send our listeners away with?
Johanna: Well, I think the thing, especially when you are a new test manager, or you are trying to figure out "How do I fit into this organization?" is to take a look at where you are and say, "What are the challenges I want to bite off now? What do they pay me to do? What are the problems I see? How do I make those two things intersect? Can I do some quality management? Can I use the process that I know about and any of the process metrics to change how we do development or how we do projects? Can I change what we do for testing? Does it make sense what we do? Do we have the right people? Am I measuring any of the right stuff?" All those things. To really think about where am I now, where do I want to get to? And what are some of my alternatives from getting from where I am to where I want to get to? I think we have a real opportunity in the software industry to make a huge difference for how we produce and test products, and I would like us all to say, you know, "I would just like to get 5% or 10% better with every release." You do that for a few releases and you have significant gains. So, that is the thing that I would like to leave people with, is how do we start from where we are and how do we get to another place that is even better than where we are?