of risk, the improvement of quality of investments and the management of the yield. So I would say anyone in this field should just really start to think, and maybe the reason that quality people aren't in the pivotal place they really should be, and deserve to be, in many organizations, has been they really haven't cast their positioning in these terms. And so I think this really helps portfolio managers redefine the role of a lot of this stuff.
Dekkers: And I think that's difficult sometimes when you've, when you take a paradigm shift, when you see how you should be thinking in the future, and the way that the future is going, how do you get there from here, I think is one of the challenges when you're in a staff position, you're in the middle of the large group of professionals, how can YOU start making a change towards that direction. I think that's a challenge.
Rubin: A lot of the change has to do with communication and I think, in the work that I do, everything from CEO's to in the trenches level troops building systems and looking at this worldwide, the issue really becomes communication and the terminology and the context people are setting for their own work.
Dekkers: I'd like to hear more about that when we return from these short messages.
Announcer: Quality Plus E-Talk is back. Now here's Carol Dekkers.
Dekkers: And if you're just joining us at the bottom of the hour, I'd like to welcome you to Quality Plus E-Talk with Carol Dekkers. I'm president of Quality Plus Technologies which helps companies to build better software using measurement. And our guest this week is Dr. Howard Rubin, who is a META Group research fellow, actually the vice-president of META Group, he's the chair of the computer science department at Hunter College, the CEO of Rubin Systems and a cast of other great, great things about him. We've been talking about running IT like a business, the new business of IT, and before we went into break we were talking a little bit about communication, and on that line I'd like to give out the toll-free number one more time. If anyone wants to communicate with us, it's 866-277-5369. And we're back Howard, did you want to finish off what you were talking about the communication, how communication is kind of the essence?
Rubin: Yeah, and actually for years people have always talked about communication. When I just brought this up it was in the context of sort of the revitalized new role of, in QA and process, and I think that quality assurance areas of IT organizations and the people involved in process improvement, the CMM type stuff, they have to start thinking about the true value they contribute to the enterprise and be able to communicate in that way, and the true value they can contribute has to do with part of the stewardship of the IT investment, and the communication should start to be along the lines of the business impact of what they do in terms that would be useful and familiar to the business, so talking about things in terms of defect rates and all this other stuff is very nice and in certain societies manufacturing companies and things like cost of quality is very nicely understood, but in about the twenty-five or twenty-six other sectors we track, in fact the communications should start to migrate and change along the lines of managing risk and the quality of the technology investments that the company is making