and that's the role they are playing, so I'm talking about a shift in terminology that'll help these concepts get sort of institutionalized or socialized, and start getting consistent with the way that businesses need to have their IT resources managed as a business.
Dekkers: Right, and I think that will help people, that the shift in terminology, people are always looking for, "What can I do in my job to make things happen?" I had pulled out an Information Week, September 18, 2000, article and it's called…and it seemed to tie in when you were talking about how history kind of repeats itself…Leon Cappleman wrote a article called "Almost Everything Old is New" and his tag line is, "What keeps CIOs up at night these days?" A lot of the same things that have always given them insomnia. He says CIO insomnia…he ran a series of focus groups…was connected to things such as expanding roles of CIO and IT management, resource constraints and times of increasing IT budgets, rising user expectations, and the increased priority of IT in the enterprise. He mentioned a couple of other things like privacy, credibility, accountability, staff retention, which are fairly typical, but what do you think is keeping CIOs up at night?
Rubin: Well it's a little different then Leon's list, although there's lots of similarities. I think everything old is new again is probably, I don't know, we can probably turn this around eight different ways, but just think about the IT intensity of business right now, so one of the things, in the past, go back fifteen/twenty years, what would anyone get woken up at night about, well, if something went wrong in a main frame batch environment, things went down, a window was missed, and some reports were there, someone would be called at night with a beeper, or whatever it is, to some operational problem. Well, right now I mean, I have companies that say they're 24/7, you know around the world I have other companies that say they're more intense, they're 8/36, they feel like they're working 36 hours a day eight days a week, so they're totally nuts, and what's this is about is that the network is in front of everything that's going on in the world of eBusiness. So what does keep the CIO up at night? Well, it's the reliability of their networks right now, and the fact that stuff is right in front of the business. what keeps them up at night is the financial engineering of their IT services into the business. What keeps them up at night is the cost pressures and the pressures to perform. It's not like the IT performance is three levels down in the data center right now, the IT performance is visible to the customer every moment of the say 24 hours a day, 365 days a year and some companies every time zone, so just think of the pressure of always being virtually on stage, and in fact if you take a look at the intensity of IT in a business, if Schwab goes out for an hour, if Schwab or E-trade goes out for ten minutes, I mean what happens to that, they start losing customers, the information goes out, their stock price goes down, and the person that gets called is not the guy in the back office on the network, he's not first to be called all the time, the person that's up in front of this is the CIO. So what keeps the CIO up is in their revised role of