e-Talk Radio: Zubrow, David, 1 March 2001

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and decision sciences, and an MS in public policy and management from Carnegie Mellon University. And if I went through and continued to read everything off his bio, I don't think we'd even be able to finish the show. David wouldn't even have a chance to speak. So I'd like to say thank you for taking the time out of what I know is a very busy day today, David, and joining us. So, welcome to the show.

David: My pleasure, Carol. One small correction - it's software engineering measurement and analysis, not management and analysis.

Carol: What did I...Did I say management?

David: Yeah, and don't worry about it, because other people have made the same mistake on occasion. But since it is our group, I like to be clear on that.

Carol: Well, I was corrected and I'm going to ask a quiz of our intelligent audience. Because this one tripped me up. I was corrected when I had Bret Pettichord on the show, and I introduced him as being part of "Seg" Software, and it was "S-E-G-U-E." Now, how would everyone pronounce "Segue"? Well, I had no idea that that's how "segue" is actually written. You know, when you segue from one topic into another, you spell it "s-e-g-u-e." So I was completely tripped up, and I guess the Freudian slip to do with measurement and management probably is similar.

David: Yeah, well, one serves the purpose of the other really, so...

Carol: That's right. I think I probably just interchanged it because we manage through measurement.

David: Right, and hey, by the way, too, just to talk maybe a little bit about some of my recent work and the trip to India. One of the presentations I gave over there was on, I called it "Putting 'M' in the Model - Measurement and CMMI," because as you're probably aware, one of the additions to the CMMI model is a measurement and analysis process area. Now, located at Level 2 in the staged model, and it's a supporting process area if you take the continuous view of the CMMI. And so I'm interested, I'll send you an email, but I'm interested in your function point mapping to CMMI as well.

Carol: Well, good, good. Well, I find it interesting that measurement is now going to be introduced in Level 2 when it used to be really a fundamental piece introduced really only in Level 3.

David: Well, actually I'll take a little bit of issue with that.

Carol: Okay.

David: Because really, as you're aware, there has always been the measurement and analysis common feature associated with each process area, and one of the things that that common feature does is provides a way for the organization to get systematic feedback on how well its processes are in fact performing. And the phraseology goes something like "measurements are made and used to determine the status of the activities for..." and then fill in the key process area name. So it's really been there as part of the institutionalization of each process area. And in perhaps a less visible way, has always been there in certain of the key process areas, intermixed, if you will, among the various activities to be performed. Like in project planning, you know with respect to estimation, or in project tracking and oversight, with respect to comparing actuals and estimates of the plan.

Carol: Right.

David: So it's been there, but I think one of the nice things about the CMMI formulation here is that it's the notion of measurement is much more

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