e-Talk Radio: Zubrow, David, 1 March 2001

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visible, which I personally, of course, believe is a good thing. When you think about process improvement, how do you distinguish change from improvement? How do you determine if something has improved or if it's just been a change? Well, if you're not measuring, you can't distinguish those two things. Or heaven forbid, change from a degradation in performance. You just don't know unless you're measuring, so I think it's really good.

Carol: And let me ask you this. The Software Engineering Process Group conference that you went to in India. That was in, whereabouts in India was that?

David: Well, I did a day's worth of tutorials in Bangalore, which is the, sort of the center, if you will, of the Indian software industry. And a day's worth of tutorials in Delhi, and then the conference program itself was in Delhi.

Carol: Oh, wow. So you were over there for a fair number of days.

David: The whole thing was about eight days long. Of course, on the way there, it took from Friday evening until Sunday morning to get there, and then coming home, Saturday was one of those 35-hour-long days.

Carol: For anyone who's crossed the dateline, they know exactly what we mean.

David: Saturday just kept going on and on and on.

Carol: And you just go all those free international drinks that you can't take advantage of, because you're not going to drink for 35 hours. And it would be awful, so, yeah, I've been on a few of those trips to South Africa and places like that. It's not fun.

David: Well, it was fascinating to have the time to meet many of the people there in India, from a number of companies that probably have recognition here in the States as well. And one of the things they pointed out to me was a new IBM building that was being built right in Bangalore.

Carol: Oh, wow.

David: An office building.

Carol: I'm going to ask you a real quick question. I'm going to "segue" into a real quick question.

David: Sure.

Carol: For any of those companies who have been actively trying to get the CMM installed into their organization, and now the CMMI comes in, some of them may or may not know how that happened, and what the difference between the CMMI and the CMM is. So if you could just spend a minute, just kind of bringing them up to date, that would be great.

David: Okay. Let's see. Well, how did it happen? Well, as you, hopefully the listeners are aware, there are several CMMs out there in the world. There's the CMM for software, which I would argue is probably the most well known, and most widely used around the globe. But there was also an effort to create a systems engineering CMM, which then would expand the scope, if you will, of the modeling activity sort of from cradle to grave in some sense, in terms of product development, not just software development, but product development. There's a software acquisition capability model. There's a people capability maturity model. So there's a variety of capability maturity models out there. And one of the things that companies were asking for and as well, the Department of Defense, is...Is there some way to combine these so that from a process...since all these things have to play out in a company or in an organization, is there some way to get in one sense some economies of scale, to reconcile them, to harmonize them, to integrate them in a way

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