problem solvers. Give me a problem and I will figure out a way to make it happen. So, they want to get that kind of information.
Carol: I think that we have complementary skills. I think one of the things that we have really learned on this show, is that developers are specialists. That they have to be technically component and go to the depths of programs and system development. Testers need to be generalists. Testers need to be able to have a wide appreciation and sometimes even of the interaction between systems and how users may behave and some other things that they may do wrong that the system was not supposed to do from a developer point of view but that it does. I would like to thank Bret Pettichord for giving us his hour of insight and spending the time with us to talk about testers and developers. So, thank you for being on the show, Bret.
Bret: Thank you. I have enjoyed it.
Carol: It has been a pleasure. I keep having better and better guests. One of our comments that came in was from a person who said you just keep getting the cream of the crop guests. I can absolutely agree with that. I have just been very fortunate. I appreciate Bret spending his time. Next week we are hoping to have Elizabeth Hendrickson on our show who is going to be talking about evaluating tools. What are the types of things that you need to do? What are the types of questions that you need to ask about any software tool if you are going to go and evaluate them and compare them? So, we are hoping to have her next week. The week after that is kind of one of the gurus of software development. Tom DeMarco will be here from the Atlantic Systems Guild. Interestingly enough, he is going to be talking about risk management and making systems work. I am also going to ask him a little bit about his brand new completely fiction book. He has written a brand new mainstream New York Times Bestseller called, it is something Hill. It is about a boy in Maine and growing up. It is a complete departure for Tom DeMarco. We will have an interesting show then, talking about risk management and system development. I will slide a few questions in about his new fiction career. We are also going to have after that David Zubrow who is a senior member of the technical staff at the Software Engineering Institute. He will be freshly back from the Software Engineering Process Group Conference in India. We will be talking to him about CMM (capability maturity model) integration advancement and what it means around the world. We are also going to be having Jim Highsmith who is one of the people who is adept at software development. Then we are going to have Stan Magee and Peter Voldner who are ISO experts, international standards. They are going to talk to us about how do you choose a process standard that will really work for your environment. We have an exciting lineup of shows. Keep an eye towards stickyminds.com and to qualityplustech.com for more information about upcoming shows. Bret, what would you like to say just in closing to our listeners?
Bret: We have been talking about testers and developers working together, and I think a big part of that is appreciation. Just to show that I do appreciate the developers that I have, I just wanted to point out the one trait that