Carol: And it's hard enough to write software in the first place that you don't want to have to go and rewrite it. In fact, based on the fact that it's gone missing or isn't the whole thing about the CMM applying a discipline, forcing yourself to, I guess, to become organized?
Mark: Absolutely. And that's the exact point that we make when we are training people on the CMM, that it's basically just common sense stuff. And whenever we're talking to folks about the Capability Maturity Model, one of the things that we wind up saying is, this is just common sense. If there's anything that you are doing that you think is not a good common sense thing to do as the result of doing process improvement, then it would probably be a good idea to stop doing that and think about what you should do in order to do reasonable things, you know. And so if schedules and cost and budgets are important things in your environment, then you need to think about requirements, management and planning, and tracking and those fundamental management disciplines. And it's not that we don't know the right things to do, it's that we're so busy scurrying around fighting fires that we don't take the time, if you will, to do the right things that we know how to do.
Carol: And it's sometimes that when you get into those crisis modes, if you don't have a plan of attack while it's not an attack in the first place, it can go awry very quickly. And having hid, well, we all know how plans sometimes go awry and even more so in software. Once the company has, you know, the requirements and the planning and the basic tracking and the ability to manage the subcontractor, software quality assurance, fundamental configuration management in place, in that Level 2, where do they go from there? What does that mean to be Level 3 or Level 4 or Level 5?